[UPDATE: Use the discount code “Military” for $75 off each adult ticket to CampFI South.]
(This offer was in effect for the 2018 Camp FI South. Check the CampFI schedule for the current offers.)
[Disclosure: I’m not paid to write this, and there are no affiliate links.]
[If you’re looking for info about FinCon and the Military Influencer Conference, then scroll down to the “Related posts” links at the bottom.]
It’s that time of year again: people are looking at meetup dates and their travel budgets. They’re wondering why in the world anyone would want to spend hundreds of dollars to talk about financial independence.
You’re not the only person wondering about the value. Whenever someone recommends Camp Mustache or Camp FI (or even FinCon!), then someone else posts that they can’t understand why it costs “so much money”. The tickets and travel expenses can’t possibly be worth the presentations and the pro tips.
If you’re serious about frugality and a high savings rate, then spending money on a conference seems to be the antithesis of pursuing FI. Why, we can do that with local meetups! Let’s pitch tents at a state park, bring fishing gear, and cook our own potluck! Why should the organizers make a humongous profit from us?
[Spoiler: it’s not humongous. Sometimes it’s not even a profit. But there are still expenses.]
Well, I can help with those questions. I might be biased, but I’m experienced. I’ve spent thousands of dollars around the country on more expensive conferences, and yet the camps are among my favorite weekends.
Over the last couple years I’ve attended two Camp FIs (held all over the nation near you) and two Camp Mustaches (near Seattle). My spouse and I will be at Camp FI South on 7-10 September in Little Rock, so see if you can still snap up a ticket!
Camp FI (South, Southeast, Southwest, Mid-Atlantic, Midwest…)
Do you want to try a Financial Independence conference without the expense or the extended schedules and the work conflicts?
Would you like to have real-life FI people, bloggers, and podcasters answer your questions one-on-one over a meal or a cup of coffee?
Would you like to stay up way too late, talk until you’re hoarse, and nerd out about FI with people who share your life goals?
[UPDATE: Use the discount code “Military” for $75 off each adult ticket.]
It’s at a retreat center on a 1200-acre campus with rustic motel rooms, a central dining room, and recreational facilities.
The organizer, Stephen Baughier, has already executed a number of successful events. (He’s not running a non-profit but he’s working for about a nickel an hour.) I’ve received tremendous value out of other CampFI events. I thoroughly enjoyed CampFI Southeast in January and I’ve had serious FOMO for being unable to go to two others this year.
CampFI has a couple of formal presentations on Saturday & Sunday (if you want to attend them). The rest of the weekend is free time for networking, team building, using the campus recreational facilities, and talk story. There will be yummy comfort food, board games, and fire circles. There will possibly be adult beverages and indulgent snacks which we attendees bring to share. Rumor is that there will be chocolate-coated macadamia nuts imported from Hawaii.
Instead of freezing in a gigantic hotel conference room under fluorescent lights with hundreds of fans clustered 20-deep around rockstar bloggers, this CampFI is limited to about 63 more people (besides Stephen, the other featured guests, and we Nordmans).
Both my spouse and I will be at CampFI South: I’m giving a talk and I’ll also spend the weekend answering all of your questions (for free). She’s also a military retiree who can answer your questions about the Reserves, dual-military work-life balance, and the glamorous empty-nester slow-travel lifestyle. She’ll even commiserate with you about why submariners are the way they are.
Other guests include:
Paul Thompson of the ReadyInvestorOne podcast. Paul is another example of FI through real estate cash flow. I appreciate the 1980s arcade gamer reference and I’m always interested in rental properties (and landlord exit strategies).
Cody Berman of FlyToFI. He’s recently finished college, he’s an entrepreneur on fire, and he’s having a tremendous year. I met him at CampFI in January and I’m looking forward to taking notes on his lessons from travel-hacking Australia.
Doc Green of DiverseFI. Doctors have a reputation of working their entire lives, yet I’ve met a bunch of them who are pursuing FI to gain more control of their time for a better quality of life.
When my spouse and I have the time in our slow-travel plans, we’ll make room for a camp. We’re happy to follow CampFI around wherever the organizers end up and then explore the local area. Believe it or not, this is the first time in my 57+ years when I’ve had a reason to visit Little Rock. I hope to remedy those deficiencies all over the country.
We’ve had so much fun (and learned so much) from the camp weekends that I actually feel a little guilty at repeating an event. They’re small enough that I’d hate to deprive someone else of their first chance.
If you can’t make CampFI South then we’ll be at more CampFI events in 2019. Take a look at the 2018 calendar and start saving some possible 2019 dates. (You may recognize a few of the folks in those photos.) Tickets tend to sell out within a few days of the announcement and you don’t want to be counting on the waitlist.
CampFI testimonial
I could blather on for a few hundred more words, but this CampFI attendee said it better:
Hey guys,
I went in January, and I am nowhere near FI. I honestly couldn’t recommend CampFI enough. I’ll break down the reasons why.
1. I thought I was in decent financial shape, but I wasn’t. Rarely (read: never) do you get a circle of millionaires offering to pore over your finances and give you personalized advice. I really benefited from the experience.
2. The dominant topics of conversation might not be what you think. The conversation when I went wasn’t “how to become FI”. It gets really personal and profound as the question changes to “who are you… really?” Money is no longer a crutch for identity and this is where the heart of the conversation lies as you watch people grapple with navigating a life that doesn’t revolve around money.
3. The Baughier twins and Doug Nordman are dope. Doug is the nicest person. If you’re still grappling with what kind of mindset one should have when pursuing FI, I’d really go to Camp FI. It’s a game changer. A really important one in my opinion.”
[Nords note on #3: They asked me whether they should opt in to the military’s Blended Retirement System. We both talked ourselves hoarse.]
Camp Mustache (North Bend WA, and a few other places)
I’ve been to Camp Mustache twice, and the second time I even dragged my spouse along for her own ticket.
This camp is the original financial independence model to which other camps aspire. The idea started in 2014 in a tiny town outside of Seattle by Mt. Si over Memorial Day weekend, and today it sells out for that location & date in mere minutes.
My first Camp Mustache was a life-changing event. I met the Baughier brothers (along with a few other military servicemembers & vets). Oh yeah, I also met some rockstar bloggers like Pete Adeney himself, Paula Pant, and Brandon the Mad FIentist. We recorded a podcast with a live audience that (over two years later) still sends traffic to my site (and e-mails to my IN box).
Pete, Brandon, Paula, & me for a live Mad FIentist podcast.
One of the highlights of the weekend was the hike up Mt. Si to the summit: 4000 feet and four miles up, and then back down again. It took the entire afternoon, and it wasn’t pretty after 3000 feet, but I made it. The view was worth the climb (<insert FI metaphor here>), and it created a bunch of other comparisons to our life journeys.
I missed the first couple years of Camp Mustache, yet by the time I showed up it was running smoothly. During the first couple years the organizers tried to keep costs to a bare minimum by renting out a facility while everyone took turns with meal preparation and kitchen cleanup. Unfortunately the housekeeping tended to get in the way of the FI discussions, which led to the current model of conference facilities with staff preparing the meals. Other camps at other locations may try different ideas, but the North Bend version of Camp Mustache seems to have the right combination of frugal lifestyle and discussion time without going cheap.
You’ll stay in touch with these people all year long. Next year you’ll return to pay it forward with a new group.
Your call to action:
These conferences (and their price tags) help you make the personal commitment to apply what you’ve learned and to grow your business. You’ll have the resources, the contacts, and the community to make it happen– not just at the conference but all year long. You’ll value what you pay for. You’ll want to come back next year to show everyone what progress you’ve made, and to figure out how to level up.
If you have the time, sign up for CampFI South in Little Rock on 7-10 September. You could wait for another camp at another location, but people like to return every year and the tickets go fast.
The same sellout speed applies to Camp Mustache in Seattle. Keep an eye on those links and be ready to move quickly when the sales open up. As the date approaches then you might be able to clear a ticket or two from the waiting list, but I wouldn’t count on it.
Got a question for me? You don’t have to wait for one of the Camps. Post it here, or send me a Facebook message, or e-mail NordsNords at Gmail.
It’s that time of year again: people are looking at conference dates and their travel budgets. They’re wondering why in the world anyone would want to spend hundreds of dollars to talk about financial independence.
Well, let’s take a look.
Why I Go to FinCon
I’m frequently asked why I go to FinCon and whether it’s worth the money. What’s the big deal?
My top reason for attending is the other attendees. I enjoy reconnecting in person with people who I’ve only known online, and I like meeting new people. I’ve made a lot of friends at FinCon who I never would have met any other way.
My second reason is a skills refresher with a battery recharge. (Maybe that’s two reasons?) I can attend presentations and workshops on every area of writing, personal finance, and social media. (This year promises to have the most in-depth discussions yet!) I might attend the top-level writer’s workshop in one hour (maybe even as part of a panel) and in the next hour, I’ll sneak into the back row of the “Pinterest For Beginners” presentation. (Hey, I’m a guy who’s still struggling to “get it”.) While I’m at FinCon I’ll catch up on the projects of my peers & friends, and we recommit ourselves to do an even better job with our skills before the next FinCon.
A third reason is the location. It’s a chance to vacation on the Mainland, perhaps in a city where I’ve never been before, and to make extra time for sightseeing. Denver, or St Louis or New Orleans, Charlotte… I’ve enjoyed them all. (I’m still waiting for a FinCon in Waikiki or on Maui. Maybe next year?) My spouse comes along to luxuriate at the hotel, explore the city, and investigate the thrift stores. She’s also highly amused to watch me talk myself hoarse by the evening of the first day.
If I wrote a top-twenty list, the other 17 reasons would all describe the fulfillment and fun that I get out of the week.
But enough about me.
Why Other People Go to FinCon
Why should you go to FinCon, and why should you spend hundreds of dollars on the experience?
Let’s start on the ground floor. If you’ve ever wanted to learn more about personal finance, this conference will cover every aspect of the field. If you’re curious about a career in writing or financial advice or if you’re starting your own business, then you’ll be among 500 other people who are already doing those things. (As you walk down the hallway listening to the chatter, you could cut the entrepreneurial spirit with a chainsaw.) By the third day you’ll have answered your “Should I?” question and started working on the Whats and Hows. You’ll also find a group of mentors and supporters whose advice you can tap all year long. You’ll also form mastermind groups to help keep you focused and motivated.
Two years ago I watched a military retiree attend FinCon12 to research blogging and social media techniques that could help him start his own financial planning firm. By the second day of the conference, we’d already rubbed elbows with Michael Kitces and networked with some well-known financial planners from USAA. That night he was sharing a few frosty beverages with Rick Ferri (who’s also a military retiree) and swapping sea stories. By the end of the conference, he was convinced that he was on the right track, and he knew what he needed to do. Today he’s running his own financial planning business and earning money from customers. He uses his social-media skills and his blog to attract military clients from all over the world.
If you’re already in business, then FinCon will help you boost your strengths and fill in the holes in your skills. You may even find partners and freelancers who’d be glad to help you outsource your chores so that you can focus on building your business.
If you’re already an expert in your craft, then FinCon will connect you to the entrepreneurs who are disrupting the business model. You’ll meet new clients (in a new demographic) and you’ll even find people who can help you leverage your talents. That last phrase is not just copywriting boilerplate– FinCon attracts a crowd of fintech entrepreneurs. Several of them are already millionaires from their previous ventures, and they know what it takes to build the next multi-million-dollar business. If millionaires are attending FinCon, then perhaps they have very good reasons to be there.
One final factor: this is our conference. We get to suggest most of the presentations (as well as the “Ask The Experts” sessions) and we deliver most of the content. When was the last time you could shake hands with the conference director and introduce yourself? Could you e-mail them a topic suggestion or nominate a keynote speaker? Could you post to the Facebook group about travel logistics or the dress code for the afterparty? PT takes our suggestions and (with a lot of volunteer labor) turns them into a conference that we’re all proud to be part of.
Paying for FinCon
The perennial FinCon question: is the cost “worth it”?
Wrong question.
Ask yourself how long it’d take for your business to earn back the FinCon expenses. Then consider whether the extra fees (for the pro networking pass and the Digital CoLab) would make you commit to work even harder at your projects.
If you’re serious about frugality and a high savings rate, then spending money on a conference seems to be the antithesis of pursuing FI. Why, what if it’s just a bunch of slimy-selling bloggers pushing their affiliate commissions and their online courses?!?
We’ve seen this thinking before:
Yeah, what a scam. Why, $500 invested today in a Vanguard index fund will be worth at least four times that much in 20 years!! I’m not wasting my money to see them in person when I could read it in my free time– for free.
Heck, I could sit at home and watch FinCon videos, or listen to podcasts during commutes and workouts. Why go to all the trouble of traveling to a conference room when frugal YouTube is right there on my smartphone?!?
Well, I can help with those questions. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on the research around the country, and I’ll share the answers in this post. Let’s start with a FinCon recap video!
I’ve been to six FinCons since 2012, and I’ll be at FinCon18. (26-29 September 2018, Orlando.) Last year I was lucky to watch Curtez Riggs reboot the MilBlogging Conference (after the previous founder’s five-year hiatus) and this year I’ll be at the rebranded Military Influencer Conference. Better yet, MIC is a twofer on 23-25 September at the same place as FinCon.
I collected the whole set.
I may be biased, but I’m experienced. For FinCon18, while I was still at FinCon17 I pretty much handed over my credit card and trusted the organizers to do the right charges.
You’re not the only person who wonders about conference value. Whenever someone recommends FinCon or MIC on social media, someone else ripostes that “it costs so much money”. The tickets and travel expenses can’t possibly be worth the presentations! Or can they?
That skepticism has turned into perpetual blog fodder as we try to explain the difference between “frugal” and “cheapskate”.
Let’s break down the benefits, and then we’ll have a section on “Frugal FinCon”.
FinCon18 (26-29 September, Orlando)
My first FinCon (2012, Denver) had just a few hundred people, and the founder was hustling to get enough speakers. I’ve watched it grow to multiple tracks (2015, Charlotte), when the organizers weren’t sure that they’d have enough audience for three simultaneous presentations in three different rooms. When FinCon crossed over 1000 people (2016, San Diego) the resort paid attention to its size (and revenue) and kicked in a bunch of extras. I’m pretty sure that the sponsors paid for even more extras that year, which crammed a ton of value into the same ticket prices.
Last year (2017, Dallas) FinCon hosted over 1800 people. If it gets any bigger then we’re going to run out of large conference facilities. Everyone enjoys having FinCon hop around the country to their back yard (2021, Waikiki?), so hopefully this is as big as it gets.
Big conferences attract much more money from resorts & sponsors. FinCon attracts everyone you’d want to network with, and the financial industry’s leading celebrities will save the date. The sharing (and the collaboration) is incredible.Today’s FinCon is big enough that you’ll find someone who’s doing everything you want to learn. Better yet, FinCon is still small enough that someone (like me!) will sit down to teach you one-on-one.
You’ll stay in touch with these people all year long. Next year you’ll return to pay it forward with a new group.
I’ve seen the scarcity mentality at other conferences. The organizers (and presenters) were reluctant to “give it away”. Many of the talks were blatant protracted product pitches into sales funnels, and the ticket prices were simply paying for access. Other attendees didn’t want you to poach their proprietary techniques, so you had thousands of individuals each pursuing their own goals while shutting down any cooperation.
FinCon has offered “abundance” since the day it was created— even including volunteer community projects. It’s the world’s largest gathering of money nerds, er, peer tutors and mastermind groups helping each other.
Over the years I’ve hung out with a couple dozen rockstar bloggers and podcasters. They’re happy to chat with newbies and going-to-bes. I’ve asked the Internet’s leading experts some of the world’s dumbest questions about writing, advertising, audio techniques, video gear, and e-mail lists– and they’ve happily showed me how to do it right. These folks don’t have any reason to talk with me because they already know I’m not buying anything from them. Some of them are already financially independent, yet we still end up sharing stories, beverages, and even meals together. Many of them are my friends.
Hopefully, you can tell that I’ve applied FinCon’s expert advice about writing better blog posts and growing an audience. I’ve certainly learned how to publish my next book. I know what mic and webcam to use for a podcast. I’m much more comfortable with interviews and video. I’ve even learned how to organize a public speaking career. Of course, my only topic is military personal finance, and my only product is the FI lifestyle.
I’m already financially independent and I’ve stopped looking for a job. But if I was starting a business, FinCon has shown me how to gross over six figures of revenue. FinCon has also shown me how to grow my wealth even faster.
Now it’s your turn.
What can you get from FinCon?
If you’re the average person who’s saving for FI, then FinCon might not be for you. (If you’re near Orlando on Friday the 28th, there is a one-day “Your Money Meetup” with a separate ticket.) The absolute cheapest way to experience the FinCon stage is the $99 community pass. You’ll get into many of the FinCon events and figure out if the rest of the conference is for you.
I’ll also write a separate post for you about other conferences like CampFI and Camp Mustache.
But maybe you’ll decide that FinCon is still for you! The second-cheapest way to find out is to buy last year’s virtual lifetime pass to FinCon University, watch some of the videos, and consider whether you want to learn more from these people.
If you’re more than the average person– if you’re turning a side hustle into a business– then FinCon is worth your time & money.
It’s for authors, freelancers, bloggers, podcasters, vloggers, YouTubers, virtual assistants, public speakers, movie producers/directors, accountants, RIAs, CFAs, CPAs, CFPs, rental-property investors, financial advisors, software developers, financial non-profits, and fintech startup founders.
You’ll learn everything about those businesses from over 200 presenters, a hundred exhibitors, and the rest of us. Sponsors include Fidelity, NEFE, USAA, AARP, Ally Bank, CFSi, XYPN, TD Ameritrade, and MediaVine. They want to meet you and find out how to work together to reach more people.
Just one of many meetups.
You’ll attend how-to talks, one-on-one mentoring sessions, and freelancer’s marketplaces. You’ll meet the leading corporations and entrepreneurs in personal finance. (The swag is outstanding.) You’ll get to hang out with us at early-morning events, meals, evening socials, and all the way through the 2 AM Pizza Club.
Are you near financial independence and wondering what’s next? Join us at an informal meetup of the Millionaire’s Roundtable and ask questions. (It’ll probably be Thursday afternoon.) It’s for millionaires and also aspiring millionaires. Show up early– last year we surprised ourselves with over 60 people.
If you’re just starting your site, then FinCon can save you a lot of fumbling and frustration. If you’ve been blogging for a while and want to add more, we can raise your game. If you’re an entrepreneur ramping up to a five-figure annual revenue then you will definitely learn online marketing from FinCon.
If you want to boost your side-hustle income 10x then FinCon is full of literally hundreds of people who’ve done that. Quit your day job? Reached financial independence and still want to keep going? We know how to do that too.
By the way, FinCon’s food add-on is not about the food. It’s about the convenience of networking among people with whom you might never otherwise connect. You’ll sit down at a table among random strangers and finish the meal with your new friends. You’ll realize that you’re swapping business cards with nationally-known bloggers, corporate sponsors, and freelancers who have six-figure incomes. (You might even run across a keynote speaker or “Big Idea” presenter.) You’ll ask questions and pick up enough tips to earn back the cost of the upsell.
Still not sure? Check out this video interview of FinCon founder Philip (“PT”) Taylor by CFA Joseph Hogue. (Joe’s a Marine vet– see his shadowbox in his video background?) Joseph is a location-independent author, blogger, and video expert who’s earning six figures a year online. Guess where he’s learned how to do this. PT explains the logistics of hosting a conference and how to build your community. He’s making a profit from FinCon, but he’s also working for a tiny little salary. His real FinCon benefit comes from the same one you’ll get: networking with your community and the brands.
One final FinCon success story: Did you read the post by WordPress founder Matt Mullenweg about a recent WP conference? We FinCon attendees report dozens of those experiences every year from rideshare drivers, resort staffs, and even random hotel guests who wonder whether there’s any money in this blogging stuff.
Frugal FinCon – How to Save Money on Your Conference Experience
It starts with a room-share spreadsheet. Yes, you and a half-dozen of your closest new friends can turn a resort hotel room into submarine crew berthing. If you’re the kind of person who wants to hang around the lobby late into the midwatch, then it’s worth staying at the resort. Otherwise, some FinCon attendees will be renting offsite AirBnBs or redeeming points at nearby hotels. You might put together your own 2 AM Pizza Club there instead of at the resort.
If you want to carpool or rideshare then post to the Facebook group. You’ll find someone driving from nearby, or you’ll learn advanced travel techniques to save on airfare. Save your Uber credits for this part of the month. You can also use the FinCon mobile app or the Slack channel to share vehicles between the airport and the resort.
There’ll be plenty of yummy Florida cuisine at FinCon, but I’ve even seen people pack a frugal food loadout.
FinCon may be a tax-deductible expense for your business. (I don’t know your business, but the CPA attendees can help you answer that question.) Spend the money for the pass, and then figure out how to save money everywhere else.
Here Are Some Other Ideas for Your Long-Term Planning:
You can ask a corporate sponsor for a media pass (perhaps in exchange for your post or video about their FinCon presence).
You can enter the FinCon 2019 scholarship competition. (It’ll be announced in spring 2019.)
Liz Weston moderates our “Money For Mature Audiences” panel.
To maximize the leverage of your frugal FinCon experience, then attend only the presentations you really want to see and spend the rest of the time networking. Your pass includes access to the professionally-recorded videos which will be released a few weeks after FinCon. I attend at least one FinCon presentation every year (um, mainly because I’m on the stage) and then I spend the rest of my time in the exhibit hall to learn & network.
Your Call to Action
Have you been on the fence for a while? Don’t know how to get started? Tried blogging and got nowhere? We’ve all been there, and we know how to get somewhere. We can help you figure out a better approach.
These conferences (and their price tags) help you make the personal commitment to apply what you’ve learned and to grow your business. You’ll have the resources, the contacts, and the community to make it happen– not just at the conference but all year long. You’ll want to come back next year to show everyone what progress you’ve made, and to figure out how to level up.
Let us know what worked for you– or even let us know why you hated it.
Previous FinCon Notes
FinCon 2017: Bigger Than Ever.
“Collect the whole set!”
FinCon started out in 2011 with a couple hundred financial bloggers. Six years later it’s grown by nearly an order of magnitude: 1750+ attendees filled the Sheraton Dallas and the adjacent convention center.
This year the keynote speaker was David Bach, and he hung around for the rest of the conference to sign books and record podcasts. (He attracted a large crowd, and he’s fun to listen to.) Darren Rowse of the seminal ProBlogger gave another keynote about the early days of blogging, back when posts were carved out of a block of HTML with dial-up landlines and a 28.8 kbps modem. He also hung around for the rest of the conference and even attended the Plutus Awards ceremony.
They’re celebrities, yet they’re totally approachable. It’s a surreal experience when your elevator doors open to admit one of the global pillars of entrepreneurial blogging, who then introduces himself as though nobody has ever heard of him.
Me (turning my badge toward him): “Good morning, I’m Doug Nordman.”
Darren: “Good morning, Doug, I’m Darren Rowse.”
Me: “Um, yes, I know. I’m looking forward to your talk.”
Darren: “Thank you!”
Our ride ended before it occurred to me that I could deliver an elevator pitch. On the other hand Darren was just enjoying the conference experience. I’m pretty sure that he and David are financially independent, but I don’t think they’ll ever stop doing what they love.
As compelling and entertaining as the keynotes and presentations were, this year I spent a lot more time answering questions than sitting in the audiences. I joined the panel discussion “What’s Wrong With Being On FIRE?” with Tanja of OurNextLife, Gwen of Fiery Millennials, and Scott Trench of Bigger Pockets. Only at FinCon do we congratulate half the panel members on their imminent unemployment (Scott has no reason to quit either) and then talk about real estate.
I heard more compliments about that panel than any other FinCon event I’ve ever done. Either I’m getting better at panels or I was sitting at the All-Stars table. (Hint: it’s not me.) I’m looking forward to next year’s discussions.
This niche meetup had a slow start.
I thoroughly enjoyed the traditional FinCon events: the Pro Networking session (speed-dating a dozen companies in two hours), the freelancer’s marketplace (more networking), and blogger mentoring. I attended several niche meetups, including the Millionaire Roundtable and even a group from this year’s Camp Mustache. Please contact me if you’d like more information.
I was hoarse before MilBlogging even ended, let alone before starting FinCon. By Saturday night I was exhausted.
200 business cards barely made it through the week. I did several interviews and a video (I’ll post links when they’re released) and I set up more podcast guest spots. I met an entire battalion of military servicemembers & veterans. We covered a huge range of career & lifestyle questions. Of course, a few of us just wanted to talk oceanography, hydrodynamics, materials science, and kinesthetics surfing.
“And the nominees are…”
Thank you to all of you who nominated The-Military-Guide for its second Plutus Award! Ryan Guina of TheMilitaryWallet won the trophy (he’s having a monster year), and the rest of the pack is right behind him. We had a fantastic group of nominees for all of the awards, and you should add a few of these sites to your reading list.
Now it’s time to gear up for MilBlogging18 and FinCon18: 23-25 and 26-29 September in Orlando. Tickets will sell out (especially MilBlogging), the resort lodging will overflow to surrounding AirBnBs, and the prices will just keep going up from now until September.
This article was written by Eddie Wills, from GubMints.com.
This is a friendly rebuttal to Nords’ recent post Don’t Buy a Home as you Leave Active Duty. The GubMints family has lived in the same North San Diego home we bought back in 2000, 4 months after leaving Active Duty. I’m here to show you that you CAN make it happen, but not without sacrifice.
Post Length: ~ 1750 Words
Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): In hindsight, I would probably do it all over again, but I might have taken the VA up on its loan program for the free-refinance option later. Why?
My family and I are happy with where we live. Happy Wife= Happy Life.
Neighbors who have recently moved on to our block hate me- Mostly because my Mortgage and Property Taxes are about a third of what they are paying for the same home next door (If you’re from California, you already know all about this one- It’s called Proposition 13).
I’ll re-cap and re-butt Nords’ key points from his article one by one, and let the reader decide.
NORDS’ POINT: Making the move- Why push so hard? …We’ve read dozens of panicked posts on forums and Facebook groups from veterans who’ve been turned down for a loan.
GubMints’ COUNTERPOINT: In some cases, buying could be smart. In our case, we rented for the first few months- but we were lucky to score the rental.
When I punched out back in the heydays of Y2K, the economy was red-hot. Junior Military Officer (JMO) Headhunters were actually placing officers in technology companies in the San Diego Area (!). That being said, I still chose to arrange my first civilian job on my own- A construction contracting gig.
Finding a rental in that market was NOT easy. I was new to the area, new to a job (with 1099 income), plus we had 2 cats, 1 dog, and a 1-year-old running amok. Apartment complexes didn’t want to touch us- Finally, a family friend had a vacancy in one of his condos and let us move in. The rental condo we moved into was rather dated and dumpy (it was what is known as a condo conversion, where an apartment complex sells off all the individual units as condos in a massive Equity cash grab).
In the end, our initial rental was all a blessing. The contracting gig fizzled after 2 months and I was unemployed for a few weeks. Fortunately, the rental was in Central San Diego, which gave me the option to commute to just about any job in the county within a reasonable time. In spite of the fact that our rental shared a wall with a drug dealer (a real ‘duh!’ moment in hindsight when we were informed of this during move-out), the place served our needs. It may have been impossible for us to purchase a house with 3 pets, a baby, and an expired 1099 pay stub unless we were Cash buyers.
After the construction gig fizzled, a JMO headhunter quickly landed me a job in North San Diego, where we bought what would become our ‘Forever’ Home- A new construction house 3 stoplights away from the new Job. Everything was happening Exactly according to my Plans.
NORDS’ POINT: The myth of the forever home… It turns out that civilians don’t move as much as military families, but they still move a lot. The reality is that over 11% of Americans are still moving every year … GubMints’ COUNTERPOINT: Totally agree with you on this one Nords.
We’ve been in our house for almost 18 years (since 2000), but our household is the exception to the Rule. Most of the homes on the block have turned over 2-4 times during our ownership tenure. For example, the house on our left is on its 3rd owner (and will be on its 4th this summer). The house on our right is on its 3rd owner (likely 4th before the end of this year). On our block of 50 homes, there are only a handful of us ‘Old Guard’ (O.G.) owners still on the block who purchased our homes during new construction.
Why is this so?
Even our Forever Home needed Expanding at one point…
First, The Forever Home is elusive because of the Job Search issue (my estimate: 50% Probability in a 30-year Mortgage).
NORDS’ POINT: The job search….one of the reasons my spouse and I pursued financial independence so hard is because neither of us wanted a bridge career after the military. The hardest part of the job search is flexibility, and that sets up homebuyers for failure. Ideally, you’d go where the job is. GubMints’ COUNTERPOINT: Nords, you’re Spot-on again.
As a youth, I moved around quite a bit- Seven (7) times before high school. Dad was NOT Active Duty Military – He worked accounting for a big company that would later become Honeywell. Any time Dad was offered a promotion, there was always a catch – He had to move his family. Dad got another promotion opportunity while I was in High School, but by then we had all had enough. His career moved sideways for the better part of 7 years following that ‘non-move’- But his family stayed together.
HARD KNOCKS LESSON LEARNED: It doesn’t matter if you are military or civilian, in either case, upward mobility often equates to geographic mobility.
Following my youth experience, plus my 4 PCS moves in 7 years with the Navy, I made up my mind that this would not happen to me and the Gubmints family once I Punched Out. I made it a point that I would only work for companies Headquartered in San Diego, or the government (or its government contractors) in San Diego.
So how did that work out for me? I’m still in the same house, but on my 4th career since buying the house. The jobs have ranged in tenure from 4 weeks to 9 years, and the commutes have ranged from 3 stoplights to 3 hours round-trip. I’ve got no regrets from any of the employers I’ve worked for, and I’ve always enjoyed the camaraderie of the people I’ve had the opportunity to work with.
..but it has come with sacrifice. There’s an infamous ‘Sunshine Tax’ or ‘San Diego Discount’ on wages in the area, plus I have worked a few jobs that amounted to a 50% travel cadence.
The tradeoff for my ‘slow growth’ on the wage scale is that I’m still in the same house, and my oldest son has been in the same school district for 18 years. About half of my former neighbors on the block have moved out for job relocation- And job relocation can be used for any job-related circumstance, be it promotion, firing, RIF, company shuts down, etc.
Second, the Forever Home is elusive because of ‘Family Issues’ (i.e. Divorce) (~25% Probability in a 30-year Mortgage).
I’m in the demographic now where married couples are dropping like flies. And during the Divorce, the house usually gets liquidated as a part of the Settlement. I won’t bore you with Family Law statistics, but I certainly empathize with why these things happen. When you get to mid-career/middle age, a whole bunch of factors starts to stack up against your Family Life:
(40-60 hrs/ week) You’re expected to take on more responsibility at work in line with your salary increases over the years.
(1-30 hrs/ week) Your Aging Parents are in deteriorating health. If you’re lucky, they’ve pre-arranged everything with their estate and health directives. If they haven’t, you or your spouse will have the equivalent of a full-time job taking care of Mom or Dad’s affairs and their well-being when one of them has a fall/stroke/heart attack, emergency major surgery, etc.
(5-20 hrs/week) You’ve got school-aged kids. Watching them grow is rewarding, but it takes a LOT of your time.
(0-10 hrs/week) And oh yeah, if you’re lucky you still have a Spouse, you need to commit time to the relationship. If any one of the 3 bullets above has a ‘surge’ in activity, your time spent with your Spouse- And Your Relationship- Will suffer.
Third, the Forever Home is elusive, as no structure meets all of your needs over life’s stages (25% Probability in a 30-year Mortgage, near 100% Probability over 40 years).
It’s highly unlikely that 1 home will meet all of your needs during the life stages through Early Marriage, School-Age kids, Empty Nest, and Golden Years. Ex:
A downtown condo is great for your social life when you’re DINKs, but you’ll be bursting at the seams with a family of 5 in a condo.
A suburban tract home is great for kids, but it will be too big a mortgage to deal with when you’re young. It will also be Too Much House when you have an Empty Nest.
A small condo will be great when you have an Empty Nest, but you’ll want a single-story home in your Golden Years.
NORDS’ Other POINT: The VA loan financing fee is pricey.
GubMints’ COUNTERPOINT: VA Funding Fees are a bit pricey, but can be worth it.
The Gubmints Family never did a VA Loan. We have refinanced 5 times(!) since 2000, mostly for interest rate drops, but sometimes to do a cash-out.
Looking back on this, the option to drop your mortgage rate for free under the VA IRRRL program any time market interest rates drop would have saved us thousands and thousands in fees over the years- More than likely worth the up-front fees that would have accompanied using a VA loan on the original purchase vs an 80/20 Conventional Mortgage. I’m envious of fellow vets who have used the IRRRL program do drop their mortgage rate for free.
So in summary,
…the GubMints family:
Has owned the same home for 18 years that we bought within 4 months of departing Active Duty.
We love the house, love our neighbors, love the schools, and love the (present) commute.
But it took some sacrifice- And a lot of luck- to get where we are today. That being said, I have no idea if we will be here another 18 months, another 18 years, or Forever. We’re going to let life’s stages (and Proposition 13) decide!
It’s not likely you’ll find your ‘Forever’ Home immediately after leaving the Military.Career Changes, Life Changes, and Growing/Shrinking family needs will morph what your ‘ideal’ home looks like over time. That being said, if you have a static time horizon of 5 years or more in front of you, the economics of Home Purchase/Mortgage can work in your favor versus renting the same house.
Dean Nordman passed away on Saturday morning 18 November 2017 at age 83 due to complications from Alzheimer’s disease.
Dad & me, early 2002.
Regular readers may remember that my father first noticed his dementia symptoms in 2008 (at age 74) yet he refused all offers of help. (This is common when dementia takes over.) By 2011 he was clearly dealing with Alzheimer’s Disease and could no longer live safely on his own. When Dad ended up in the hospital with a perforated ulcer, the doctor “ordered” him to move into a care facility. My brother and I petitioned the probate court to be appointed as Dad’s guardian and conservator.
Dad’s cognition steadily declined over the years, but he recovered from more health crises than I care to remember. A few months ago he reached late-stage Alzheimer’s symptoms, and last week his coordination rapidly declined. On Friday morning the memory care facility recommended hospice, although we all agreed that he could easily recover again.
On Friday evening, hospice saw his symptoms take a turn for the worse and we arranged for 24-hour nursing care. (The doctor hinted that it might be days instead of months.) Morphine helped relieve Dad’s restlessness and he slept through the night. He never woke up on Saturday morning, and then his heart stopped.
Some neuropsychologists claim that Alzheimer’s makes you more of what you already are. (Just like money.) Rather than feeling sad at Dad’s loss, I’d like to note that for the last nine years he’s been mostly happier than I’ve ever known him. His memory finally freed him of all his cares and burdens. I didn’t enjoy his journey, but I’m glad we were there to help him and to spend the time with him.
I’m particularly glad that I have the financial independence to focus on helping my brother and my Dad. It’s not about me or money– it’s about having the time and energy to help make life better for the people I care about.
In 1978 my family moved to Parker CO. (I moved in the other direction that same week, courtesy of the U.S. Navy.) My mother died of cancer in 1987, and Dad retired early (at the age of 53) with a small corporate pension. He eventually moved to Grand Junction and spent the next two decades roaming the Rocky Mountains. In between extended camping trips he regularly hiked 40 miles per week through Colorado National Monument Park. He loved the dry, cold altitude and he hated traveling to tropical Hawaii.
Dad at Colorado National Monument Park
During one of Dad’s rare Hawaii visits in the late 1990s, I was contemplating my impending retirement from the U.S. Navy’s submarine force. I’d just completed the usual series of “interest surveys” and “assessment tools” to find a bridge career, and the results indicated that I had a bright future as a nuclear engineer or a mid-level manager.
Wow, Dept of Labor, thanks for the transition advice. Seriously?!? I already had nearly 20 years’ experience at those jobs. Anything else?
I was grousing to Dad about this epiphany when he gave me one of those looks which fathers reserve for their especially slow-witted sons:
Dad: “You’ve been in the Navy for all these years. Did you manage to save any of that money?”
Me: “Um, yeah, and it’s grown quite a bit.”
Dad: “So why would you want to keep working? Do you have enough to retire yet?”
Me: **Blinding flash of the obvious.**
I was nearly 40 years old during that conversation, yet that was the first time in my life when anyone (let alone me) had given me permission to stop working for a paycheck.
I took Dad’s advice to heart. I retired from active duty in 2002 and never looked back. I certainly figured out what I was gonna do all day.
I dedicated “The Military Guide” to him “… for asking the questions.”
Dad grew up on a 58-acre farm in 1940s Milford Ohio. You may be surprised to know that he was an electrical engineer who designed electrical grids and helped Westinghouse sell the secondary systems of nuclear reactors. (Well, if you know me or my daughter then you’re probably not surprised.) Like most farm boys and engineers, he never saw a reason to fuss over death. In one of his letters to us (copy in his file folder labeled “Death: In Case Of”) he requested cremation. He didn’t want a fancy memorial service, let alone “an extravagant funeral”. He also wrote “Ashes: You figure out what to do with them.” I may be writing this with tears in my eyes, but I can still imagine him smirking as he wrote that.
My conservator’s appointment has ended. We’re paying the final bills for his hospice, a 24-hour nursing service, and the pharmacy. I’ve notified Social Security and his pension fund manager and the other usual agencies & corporations. Those processes will all grind along slowly over the next few months.
Dad’s finances are straightforward. For nearly 25 years of retirement he spent less than half of his income. He wasn’t extraordinarily frugal, but he rented 2BR apartments in small towns and drove old 4WDs. Camping & hiking are cheap, and he mostly shopped at L.L. Bean. He owned quality outdoor gear but his furniture was garage-sale bargains. The only personal valuables he kept were Mom’s rings. He donated generously to charities.
His accounts were simple, although volatile: Fidelity mutual funds with an asset allocation of 85% equities/15% bonds. (He cashed out his IRAs in 2003.) He had more than enough cash flow from dividends and he didn’t keep an emergency fund. As Alzheimer’s took his cognition, he stopped managing his money. By 2011 his finances were in disarray and he didn’t even have a power of attorney, let alone any advanced estate planning like a revocable living trust. I had six years to clean everything up, search the Internet for abandoned accounts, and go through his storage boxes. There won’t be any financial surprises.
Luckily he chose to make his accounts “Transfer On Death”, which means that Colorado law may only require filing Dad’s will without probate. (My brother and I will send out affidavits to transfer Dad’s accounts.) We’ll file our final guardian & conservator reports with the Denver Probate Court. We’ll claim his small life insurance policy. In the next few months I’ll file his final tax return and (if required) the estate’s income tax return.
Maybe next year I’ll have more to write about Dad’s finances and his estate, but I doubt it. I sincerely hope that I never have more to write about Alzheimer’s either.
As my daughter said after she got the news of Dad’s death: “We’re a family of engineers, so everything is taken care of.” We’ll keep doing that, starting with the family revocable living trust.
As for me, these last 1100 words are “keyboard therapy” among e-mails, forms, and phone calls.
What about you? Have you taken care of your financial independence?
Would you like to have the time (and money) in your life to be there for your family? When the time comes, will your caregivers be able to take over your financial affairs?
What are you waiting for? Start here. It’s free (check your local libraries) and I’m not selling anything. I donate all of my writing revenue to military-friendly charities.
As always: your comments, questions, and advice are welcome. Ask me anything, because I sure wish I’d been able to have these conversations with Dad.
You’ll meet over 400 attendees like you: whether you’re on active duty, or optimizing your Reserve & National Guard life, or a military spouse, or a veteran. Some of us are real-life war heroes (with the medals to prove it) while others are helping more heroes. It’s the camaraderie you had in uniform (without the shared misery). For some of us, it’s a victory lap. For many of us it’s mutual therapy through our sea stories experiences.
MIC is much more than a military subset of FinCon. Attendees range from side-hustle entrepreneurs to CEOs of multi-million-dollar companies supporting military families. They’re people who’ve been through your transition (more than once) and have figured out life after military. They’ve founded non-profits and they’re still serving.
There’s even more collaboration. FinCon can help you meet fantastic people who inspire you to do great things. At MIC you’ll meet people with your background who understand the unique challenges of military life— and then they’ll inspire you to do more great things too.
Curtez Riggs, the owner of MIC, is leveraging FinCon’s contract with the resort. (It’s greatly accelerated MIC’s growth and reduced its ticket prices.) All of MIC’s and FinCon’s presentations & panels are professionally recorded for later YouTube viewing, so it’s also a unique chance for networking and exploring other aspects of finances & media. It really liberates you from the schedule to take advantage of chance encounters.
I think it’s a good fit for your business(es) too. It’s especially useful for expanding your social media marketing, client funnels, and fintech. You’ll connect with everyone in your local area for additional meetups & networking. The expense of the whole week (instead of “just” MIC) has a rapid & long-term ROI.
USAA is a huge sponsor of Military Influencer Conference. You’ll also learn from dozens of other military-friendly corporations and startups. Curtez is an entrepreneur on fire, and he just retired from active duty a few months ago. I can’t wait to see what he brings home to the community.
If you haven’t bought your MIC ticket yet, a fellow author is selling one. Contact me and I’ll connect you.
Your Call to Action – Will You Attend MIC18?
Have you been on the fence for a while? Don’t know how to get started? Tried blogging and got nowhere? We’ve all been there, and we know how to get somewhere. We can help you figure out a better approach.
These conferences (and their price tags) help you make the personal commitment to apply what you’ve learned and to grow your business. You’ll have the resources, the contacts, and the community to make it happen– not just at the conference but all year long. You’ll want to come back next year to show everyone what progress you’ve made, and to figure out how to level up.
Let us know what worked for you– or even let us know why you hated it.
2017 Military Influencer Conference Overview – (Previously the MilBlogging Conference)
MilBlogging is back.
The next conference is 23-25 September 2018 in Orlando, and MIC18 tickets are on sale now. They’ll go fast. At the very least, sign up for the mailing list and learn more over the next few months.
Those of you who’ve been around military social media for a while may remember the original MilBlogging of the early 2000s. The last conference was in 2012. Ticket sales began for 2013, but then the conference was canceled and everyone’s money was refunded. None of the organizers would talk about it. 2013 was going to be my first MilBlogging conference, and I was mightily annoyed that I’d missed my opportunity.
The MilBlogging reboot
In 2016 the owner of The-Military-Guide, Curtez Riggs, mentioned that he was restarting the conference. He bought the domain name and other accounts from the former owner. We may never know what stopped the original gatherings, but USAA immediately stepped up to help sponsor the new Military Influencer conference.
Curtez set a break-even sales goal of 150 tickets. Over 250 entrepreneurs showed up from all types of blogging, military media, and startups. (Nearly half of the attendees were military spouses.) Appropriately, we kicked off the conference the evening before with a social at Honor Courage Commitment’s new Veteran Business Center. I had a chance to talk with their execs, a board member, and a few of the vets who were going through their entrepreneur’s programs. Over 200,000 servicemembers (and their families) transition out of the military every year, and HCC is doing a great job of helping them find their way.
Shark Tank entrepreneur panel
The first official day of MilBlogging ran through eight hours of presentations, seminars, and panels on blogging, building a business, and running a military nonprofit organization. We heard from Emily Nunez Cavness, who somehow kept Sword & Plough going through her entire active-duty career and then returned full-time after completing her service. Jen Pilcher of MilitaryOneClick ran a panel on building your brand. Daniel & Diane Rau of Veterati explained their peer-mentoring model for military veterans and servicemembers. Ellie Kay reprised a new session on representing brands through blogging, social media, and radio/TV. (I saw Ellie’s first version of this talk in 2014, and several members of that audience have built her advice into a six-figure income.) At the end of the day, four veteran entrepreneurs described their experiences on the TV show Shark Tank. (That link opens the video of the presentation.) You could’ve been sitting in that MilBlogging audience to learn what happens behind the scenes.
The second day was another round of presentations and seminars. More importantly: you were sitting with these veterans & entrepreneurs in the audience, talking with them between sessions, and socializing with them over Texas BBQ and adult beverages. They didn’t just parachute in for a keynote and disappear.
Curtez expects to sell at least 400 tickets next year. Better yet, MilBlogging18 is a twofer at the same resort as FinCon18. You’ll get a full week of the conference experience.
The MilBlogging VIP and FinCon Pro pass perpetual debates
I answered the Pro pass questions about 82 gazillion times over the last year, so let me review the parameters here (and link to this post for the rest of my life).
You can learn a lot (and have a great time) without buying the VIP pass or the Pro pass. Yet when you spend the extra money, it’s more than just learning: you’re investing in your business. You’ll get additional one-on-one access to more entrepreneurs and corporations. You’ll have even more opportunities for coordinate freelance articles, to partner on projects, and to secure sponsors.
The trip can be relatively expensive when you’re flying to the conferences (let alone from Hawaii), staying a week in the hotel, and going out for meals & drinks. The additional cost of the higher-level passes is a small percentage of your sunk costs, and it offers far more value than its cost.
You can easily do both conferences in a very frugal manner. You can fly on rewards points, have several roommates (at the hotel or an AirBnB), and pack most of your food (especially breakfast). The savings from your frugal skills will easily pay for the higher level of pass.
At the very least, make sure your conference badge includes the video access. All of the sessions are professionally recorded, and afterward you’ll have the passwords. You can review the presentations and the advice as often as you want, and then you can apply them to your own business.
You’ll also gain a sponsor’s perspective on the conferences. They want to connect with motivated writers and creative entrepreneurs. The VIP pass and the Pro pass give them more opportunities to meet them during meals, socials, and other special events. It’s easier for them to mine the names and businesses on the VIP and Pro lists than it is to randomly invite hundreds of prospects.
One of the reasons I was so exhausted by the end of the week was from attending all extra-hours VIP/Pro extra breakfasts, lunches, cocktail hours, and pub crawls. (Pro tip: I don’t even drink alcohol.) Those turned into additional corporate meetings at the Exhibition Hall, several guest posts and podcast appearances, and a very long interview. (I’ll let you know when everything is published.) I also found a couple of new startup investment opportunities and even a very interesting surfing product. This was my fifth consecutive FinCon Pro pass, and I’ve received full value every time. It was my first MilBlogging VIP pass but I’m going to support Curtez’s plans (and say thank you!) every chance I get.
I give all of my writing revenue to military charities, but my marketing at the MilBlogging conference will generate more in royalties (let alone book sales) than the cost of the ticket. The VIP pass opened the door to meet those book buyers.
Here’s a final insight on the VIP and Pro passes. Behavioral financial psychologists have demonstrated many times that we show more commitment when we have to pay for an education. (Who paid for your high-school certificate? And then who paid for your college degree?) If you’re watching a free video series (even from home in your pajamas) then you might show up and complete the sessions. If you’re paying for a presentation, though, then you’ll make sure that your hours of labor (to pay for the tickets) are rewarded by extracting full value from your attendance.
When you buy the VIP pass and the Pro pass, you’re not only investing more in your business and creating more opportunities, but you’ll work harder to turn the investment into greater revenue. That’s the value of the passes.
Take a look at the “Related articles” links for more conference reports from other entrepreneurs. (Pro tip: Wow, look at all those keywords and linkbacks.) I hope to see you next year!
Now in military base libraries, too.
USE THIS LINK for the book and the pocket guide from Impact Publications.
Want to buy a bulk order? Contact me for a personal discount.
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